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Home >> Forum >> Organize a Charther Chain in Italy Civil aviation forum
Organize a Charther Chain in Italy
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Message of lpassarotto - Sent 13 Oct 3:53 |
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Message of Envoy320 - Sent 13 Oct 11:00 |
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Message of lpassarotto - Sent 13 Oct 12:24 |
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It means that i want do this business and i have who pay for it but.... I can't find the airplane to make this charter chain.
So i am asking if somebody else have the same problem, in Italy or in some other country. Or it's only me who is not able.
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Message of speedbird9468 - Sent 13 Oct 12:41 |
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I'm not sure I understand tyhis one two. Do you want to start charter service in Italy. or do you want to charter a plane in Italy?. If the second option is what you want you could try Livingstone and there are many other EU charter airline's that could and would be more than willing to cater for your needs
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Message of lpassarotto - Sent 14 Oct 1:02 |
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Yes, is the second option: i am looking to charter a plane minimum for the next 3 summers but........ I hear only words from the airline companies: or it's to early for their program or they don't have airplane enough or they ask too much (10.000 for one hour fly) or...... only words.
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Message of Envoy320 - Sent 14 Oct 10:55 |
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it wouldnt matter how early it is for their programme if you wanted a specific charter.
I've got a feeling...it sounds like you want to travel on a certain route once a year....or do you want a weekly charter for example?
10,000 for a flight isnt too bad if you are chartering a whole aircraft.
try and explain your question in more detail
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Message of lpassarotto - Sent 14 Oct 15:57 |
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So, the program of the charter chain will be:
- from half june till half september
- one day in a week, saturday o sunday
- destination MXP-OLB-MXP and MXP-CTV-MXP
- Aircraft capacity from 160 to 220 people
- contract for the next 3 years
10.000 is the request for just one hour of fly with MD82.... and it's very expensive if you are looking in the idea of a charter chain.
So i think i have a quiete good business, it's not just one time, it's something long and sure....
And it could be more long and with other destination but.....
Aircraft companies doesn't want speak or speak to much and we close nothing or they don't even pay attention....
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Message of Envoy320 - Sent 14 Oct 16:07 |
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10,000 between 160 passengers = 62.5
Hardly expensive is it?
And it's not just 1 hour....think about the costs involved...
Do you think everyone involved in getting that plane to it's destination and back again does it in 1 hour?
I think you're getting a bargain there to be honest!!
Snap it up!!
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Message of speedbird9468 - Sent 14 Oct 20:36 |
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With that amount of PAX I would probably suggest a 757 size plane. It coiuld work out to be cheaper per pax than if you were to organize a travel group. can't you look further than Italy to Charter? I'm sure some ohter EU companies would be able to help you?
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Message of lpassarotto - Sent 15 Oct 6:39 |
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I am sorry that my english is so poor and may be i am not able to explane exactly what i mean.
Any way i am not getting a bargain. Just i am thinking that 10.000 is too expensive:
To make the connection MXP-OLB-MXP it take 50 minutes fly + 40 minutes stop + 50 minutes fly back it means about 23.500 that is 147
It's expensive if you are thinking in the touristic way as i am going to organize.
I think a correct price will be around 16.000
Also because the price to fly from the MD maintenance book is about 4.500/5.000 per hour (depend of price of petrol)
I also think that the better airplane will be the Airbus 321 with 199 seats and with less use of petrol for seat than other MD or Boeing.
Any way the problem is that is quiet impossible to find the airplane or better the airplane company that will start to speak about that.
Even in EU i send mainy mails but no one answer; even to say no, we are not interesting.
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Message of Envoy320 - Sent 15 Oct 10:29 |
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I think maybe you are expecting a little too much to be honest.
You want a specific charter...an aircraft capable of 220 seats (A321) but only having 199...IE: Scheduled layout....and you want to pay a no frills rate for your passengers.
And...You want a saturday or sunday flight in high summer...so the airline has to allow the aircraft out of it's usual service for your charter...
And you wonder why none of the airlines are answering!!
The world is getting more expensive....you need to catch up with it my friend!!
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Message of FLX - Sent 15 Oct 12:09 |
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Envoy320:
U're exactly right. Euro10,000 per hr is downright dirt cheap charter rate during the summer holiday peak...probably not too surprising as the MD82 in question must be pretty old. It is not uncommon to pay US$20,000 per hr to charter a slightly newer jet of similar size during holiday peaks elsewhere in N.America or Asia-Pcf.
lpassarotto:
Do U think<...the price to fly from the MD maintenance book is about 4.500/5.000 per hour...> include crew(Are U gonna fly it+do preflight safety demo to passengers all by yourself to save $), supplies(No cost if U lock-up the toilets so nobody can consume the toilet papers+soap+water) and capital cost of the aircraft(Somebody paid for that MD82 when it left the LongBeach factory in California yrs ago right?)?
Yes, 321's op cost per seat will probably be lower than MD82. It should be because 321 is a newer tech design. But which one do U think has a much higher capital cost, 321 or MD80? As I read your comments, I can't help but thinking that U don't seem to understand charter rate depends a lot on capital cost of specific aircraft(e.g. Older vs newer). I also get the feeling that U think airlines hv no other charter nor scheduled customers willing to pay Euro10,000 or more per hr and they should accept what U <...think a correct price will be around 16.000...>. My friend, airlines are not stupid and it doesn't think from <the touristic way>. They don't really care about your specific MXP-OLB-MXP business plan. All they worry about is who can offer them the highest charter rate which may be a bunch of rich London bankers who need that MD82 to fly LGW-MXP-LGW to watch soccer/football games in Milan. Correct price for U may not be a correct price for them. Charter is not always the cheapest answer to fly from A to B.
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Message of lpassarotto - Sent 15 Oct 14:52 |
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I hope to find what i am looking for.
Even the price will not be as i would like.
But the reality is in one mounth that i am speaking and asking about this project no one say i have the airplane to use for this charter chain
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Message of Envoy320 - Sent 15 Oct 15:19 |
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First of all....
Charter chain....call it a charter flight and they may understand what you want....
Secondly...
There are dozens of EU airlines crying out for work to keep them solvent. Tell them what you want, get a price and then try and knock them down a bit. Don't go over the top with them as they will tell you to go away, as they seem to be doing so far.
Be realistic with what you want.
So far you have mentioned 160-220 passengers. Let the airline decide what type of aircraft they will use so it fits in with their schedules.
I'm sure if I were trying to organise this, I would have it sorted in a week, maximum!!
Its the ideal time in the aviation world to organise charters and the like....!!!
Get a grip!!!!!!!!!
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Message of speedbird9468 - Sent 16 Oct 23:48 |
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I'll sort it out in less than 10 seconds. Phone up FR im sure they could get 160 on their 737-800's. Might be a little cramped but hay as you say its only for about 45 mins
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Message of lpassarotto - Sent 16 Oct 14:19 |
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Yes! May be i am very stupid and all of you very good and big business man!
If you are so able don't exit, i will give you the information and the contact of my Client. And we will see....
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Message of captain bill - Sent 16 Oct 15:24 |
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Ipassarotto are you using English or Italian when you are sending your emails to the airlines regarding your charter flights ?
If you are using English they will not reply as the detail of what you want is not coming over clearly. Try asking for what you need in Italian and you may get somewhere.
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Message of speedbird9468 - Sent 16 Oct 17:27 |
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I'm an English teacher and I don't get the gist of it. What I understand is that you want an aircraft to fly on a strecth of about 50 mins over the summer season in Italy and that you a5re having problems finding one. Is that correct?
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Message of Envoy320 - Sent 18 Oct 9:25 |
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Message of speedbird9468 - Sent 18 Oct 16:18 |
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Message of Fly Paul - Sent 19 Oct 15:46 |
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I think one misunderstanding in this discussion is that our italian friend is talking about a summer charter series when he says chain.
If I may add my bit.....
For any company not to reply I consider extremely rude, in my business I reply to every email. For a charter company not replying to an email talking about a summer charter series in these hard times is surprising but my experience has been similar.
Just an aside I emailed Bristol airport enquiring about the operation of a winter Malta service did they know if there was going to be one, i I sent it in April I got a reply last week, an it just said - did I find out my answer.
Our Italian friend's email may not look that professional or serious if it is the same italenglish as he uses here. My advise is have a native english speaker rewrite it for him especially one who knows aviation and would use series rather than chain.
Today because Ryanair sells seats at £0 + taxes people expect to pay very little for every route, what they do not understand that those seats are being subsidised by the last 50 seats which people are paying much more for, or the Saturday flight which subsidises the wednesday flight or the august flight which subsidises the february flight etc etc
I do agree with our Italian fiend that the price does seem a little high, when I was chartering I would pay that much for a 2 1/2 hour sector.... but I do not know the italian market, maybe other respondents do, but the price is what it is, it may be higher because they have to move an aircraft in to operate it, dead leg, who knows, it is what it's called a free market
Last point have you tried block buying half the seats on a saturday and half on a sunday on a scheduled operator.
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Message of lpassarotto - Sent 19 Oct 17:14 |
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Oh good! In the end somebody who understand.
Or better, somebody who had similar experience and can put himself in my position.
Not only like a teacher.
Thank you for your advice.
What my Clients want is something more than to buy a block of seats on scheduled fly, but it's little bit complicate to explane in two words.......
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